Wikipedia:Mercat Cross/Archive/3

Frae Wikipedia, the free beuk o knawledge
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New user group for editing sitewide CSS / JS[eedit soorce]

Enabling a helpful feature for Template editors[eedit soorce]

CKoerner (WMF) (talk) 21:28, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Bot flag request for MABot[eedit soorce]

Hello/'Allo. I would like to offer my bot services to this wiki. Details below:

  • Bot: MABot (multiple flags on multiple projects).
  • Owner: MarcoAurelio (Meta-Wiki page; other projects).
  • Basic tasks that I regularly perform:
  • Optional tasks that I can perform on request as well:
    • Clean the project sandbox page(s) regularly.
    • General template and/or category maintenance.
    • Maintenance of category redirects (currently Meta and Spanish Wikipedia).
  • Operational mode: automatic via Toolforge for the safests scripts, supervised for all other tasks.

Thank you for your consideration. Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns. Best regards. --MarcoAurelio (tauk) 20:46, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Approved. --AmaryllisGardener talk 05:55, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
Thank you AmaryllisGardener! Can you please, however, remove the permission from the bot? I'll request a proper bot flag from the stewards at m:SRB. Best regards, MarcoAurelio (tauk) 11:52, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
Sure! You're welcome! --AmaryllisGardener talk 20:53, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

IMPORTANT: Admin activity review[eedit soorce]

Hello. A new policy regarding the removal of "advanced rights" (administrator, bureaucrat, etc) was adopted by global community consensus in 2013. According to this policy, the stewards are reviewing administrators' activity on smaller wikis. To the best of our knowledge, your wiki does not have a formal process for removing "advanced rights" from inactive accounts. This means that the stewards will take care of this according to the admin activity review.

We have determined that the following users meet the inactivity criteria (no edits and no log actions for more than 2 years):

  1. Diego Grez-Cañete (administrator)

These users will receive a notification soon, asking them to start a community discussion if they want to retain some or all of their rights. If the users do not respond, then their advanced rights will be removed by the stewards.

However, if you as a community would like to create your own activity review process superseding the global one, want to make another decision about these inactive rights holders, or already have a policy that we missed, then please notify the stewards on Meta-Wiki so that we know not to proceed with the rights review on your wiki. Thanks, Rschen7754 06:07, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi, if there is no objection from the community, I would like to have the administrator rights I have on my former account (Diego) over this one, which I use. Although I don't think I will be as active as I used to be, I can help with usual patrolling. I'm fine with whatever the community decides! Kind regards --Küñall (tauk) 06:11, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
Since there has been no opposition in over two weeks, I have requested on the stewards' noticeboard to have my rights transferred. --Küñall (tauk) 03:27, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Broken redirects[eedit soorce]

'Allo. With regards to my approved bot request above, I'd like to note that there are several broken redirects on the project. What do you want to do with them? Can I fix/tag those for deletion or do you want to keep them for some purposes? Given that there are more than 50+ pages involved and I don't want to revert later, I'm asking first just in case you'd like to do something different. I'll run the bot to see if some can be redirected to existing pages, bot for all others that need deletion I'll abstain from tagging them for now until the resolution of this thread. Best regards. MarcoAurelio (tauk) 10:37, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi there :-) Have you had the chance to review this? Best regards, MarcoAurelio (tauk) 20:16, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
Hi MarcoAurelio, it would be really helpful to have them tagged for deletion. Thanks! --Küñall (tauk) 03:44, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
Hi there again. If there are no objections I can have my bot do it. I'll wait a bit more before doing so to be on the safe side. Thanks, MarcoAurelio (tauk) 21:53, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Missing namespace translations in Scots[eedit soorce]

Hello. As I am noting on Phabricator; this wiki lacks namespace translations; so you're using the English-default ones. Namespace names, magic words and special page names can be translated. Previously that could be done via translatewiki.net, but due to the software that allowed such operations being broken, we developers have to do all of this by hand now. If you're interested to get the interface more translated I invite you to take a look at the Phabricator task I linked above and help translate some words. Once at least the basic namespaces are translated, we can start slowly implement them. Thanks for your help. Best regards, --MarcoAurelio (tauk) 10:43, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Here are the current proposed namespace translations:
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/mediawiki/core/+/452582/3/languages/messages/MessagesSco.php
Most notably:
  • All "Talk" namespaces are translated as "Collogue".
  • "User" is translated as "Uiser"
Does this make sense? --Amir E. Aharoni (tauk) 05:14, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
Tagging some active users: Friendshipfan, User:Vampibyte. --Amir E. Aharoni (tauk) 05:23, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
I think it's fine! But maybe user:AmaryllisGardener could know more --Küñall (tauk) 02:44, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the ping! Talk is often translated as "Collogue", however I'm not 100% sure, because the OSD uses "talk" mostly, and lists "collogue" as being something more private or confidential. "User" should definitely be "Uiser", and "Wikipedia" should be "Wikipaedia". Otherwise I can't think of any namespaces that need to be changed. --AmaryllisGardener talk 03:08, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the replies, User:Küñall and User:AmaryllisGardener!
I see that in translatewiki, "talk" is usually translated as "tauk", and very rarely as "collogue". Here, locally in the Scots Wikipedia, some of the messages that mention talk pages are modified to say "collogue".
It's totally up to you to decide, but I strongly suggest deciding on a consistent terminology, removing as many of the local modifications as possible, and using translations from translatewiki.net unless you really need local modifications.
I should mention that the original English strings don't use "talk" exclusively, and sometimes they say "discussion" instead. So if you think that sometimes "tauk" (or "talk") is appropriate and sometimes "collogue" is appropriate, it's OK. You will have to choose only one word for the namespace name, however. --Amir E. Aharoni (tauk) 07:40, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
Here is an easy way to find locally modified messages:
  • Click https://sco.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAllMessages&prefix=&filter=modified&lang=sco&limit=5000&uselang=en . In each pair of rows, the top yellow row shows the message as it is translated at translatewiki.net, and the bottom green row shows the local modification on the Scots Wikipedia.
  • Search for "Collogue" using Ctrl-F (Windows, Linux) or Command-F (Mac). (You can also search for anything else.)
  • If the top yellow row has a good translation: open the message by clicking the message key in the left-hand column. These are links such as "1movedto2", "1movedto2_redir", "Confirmrecreate", etc., and delete this page. (This has to be done by an administrator.)
  • Do the same if the messages in the yellow and the green row are identical.
  • If the bottom green row has a good translation, and it's good that it's locally modified on the Scots Wikipedia, just leave it alone. An example of a good local modification is using "article" instead of "content page", linking to local policy pages, etc.
  • If the bottom green row has a good translation, and it can be useful for all wikis in the Scots language, go to translatewiki.net, find the message, and correct the translation there. After two or three days the translation will be auto-updated in the Scots Wikipedia. After that, delete the message.
That's it. Hope it helps! --Amir E. Aharoni (tauk) 07:50, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Editing of sitewide CSS/JS is only possible for interface administrators from now[eedit soorce]

(Please help translate to your language)

Hi all,

as announced previously, permission handling for CSS/JS pages has changed: only members of the interface-admin (Interface administrators) group, and a few highly privileged global groups such as stewards, can edit CSS/JS pages that they do not own (that is, any page ending with .css or .js that is either in the MediaWiki: namespace or is another user's user subpage). This is done to improve the security of readers and editors of Wikimedia projects. More information is available at Creation of separate user group for editing sitewide CSS/JS. If you encounter any unexpected problems, please contact me or file a bug.

Thanks!
Tgr (talk) 12:40, 27 August 2018 (UTC) (via global message delivery)

Read-only mode for up to an hour on 12 September and 10 October[eedit soorce]

13:33, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

Editing News #2—2018[eedit soorce]

14:17, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Change coming to how certain templates will appear on the mobile web[eedit soorce]

CKoerner (WMF) (talk) 19:35, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Community Wishlist Survey vote[eedit soorce]

18:13, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

Advanced Search[eedit soorce]

Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 11:03, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

New Wikimedia password policy and requirements[eedit soorce]

CKoerner (WMF) (talk) 20:03, 6 Dizember 2018 (UTC)

Invitation from Wiki Loves Love 2019[eedit soorce]

Please help translate to your language

WLL Subtitled Logo (transparent).svg

Love is an important subject for humanity and it is expressed in different cultures and regions in different ways across the world through different gestures, ceremonies, festivals and to document expression of this rich and beautiful emotion, we need your help so we can share and spread the depth of cultures that each region has, the best of how people of that region, celebrate love.

Wiki Loves Love (WLL) is an international photography competition of Wikimedia Commons with the subject love testimonials happening in the month of February.

The primary goal of the competition is to document love testimonials through human cultural diversity such as monuments, ceremonies, snapshot of tender gesture, and miscellaneous objects used as symbol of love; to illustrate articles in the worldwide free encyclopedia Wikipedia, and other Wikimedia Foundation (WMF) projects.

The theme of 2019 iteration is Celebrations, Festivals, Ceremonies and rituals of love.

Sign up your affiliate or individually at Participants page.

To know more about the contest, check out our Commons Page and FAQs

There are several prizes to grab. Hope to see you spreading love this February with Wiki Loves Love!

Kind regards,

Wiki Loves Love Team

Imagine... the sum of all love!

--MediaWiki message delivery (tauk) 10:13, 27 Dizember 2018 (UTC)

FileExporter beta feature[eedit soorce]

Johanna Strodt (WMDE) 09:41, 14 Januar 2019 (UTC)

No editing for 30 minutes on 17 January[eedit soorce]

You will not be able to edit the wikis for up to 30 minutes on 17 January 07:00 UTC. This is because of a database problem that has to be fixed immediately. You can still read the wikis. Some wikis are not affected. They don't get this message. You can see which wikis are not affected on this page. Most wikis are affected. The time you can not edit might be shorter than 30 minutes. /Johan (WMF)

18:54, 16 Januar 2019 (UTC)

Talk to us about talking[eedit soorce]

Trizek (WMF) 15:01, 21 Februar 2019 (UTC)

New Wikipedia Library Accounts Available Now (March 2019)[eedit soorce]

Hello Wikimedians!

The TWL OWL says sign up today!

The Wikipedia Library is announcing signups today for free, full-access, accounts to published research as part of our Publisher Donation Program. You can sign up for new accounts and research materials on the Library Card platform:

  • Kinige – Primarily Indian-language ebooks - 10 books per month
  • Gale – Times Digital Archive collection added (covering 1785-2013)
  • JSTOR – New applications now being taken again

Many other partnerships with accounts available are listed on our partners page, including Baylor University Press, Taylor & Francis, Cairn, Annual Reviews and Bloomsbury. You can request new partnerships on our Suggestions page.

Do better research and help expand the use of high quality references across Wikipedia projects: sign up today!
--The Wikipedia Library Team 17:40, 13 Mairch 2019 (UTC)

You can host and coordinate signups for a Wikipedia Library branch in your own language. Please contact Ocaasi (WMF).
This message was delivered via the Global Mass Message tool to The Wikipedia Library Global Delivery List.

Read-only mode for up to 30 minutes on 11 April[eedit soorce]

10:56, 8 Apryle 2019 (UTC)

Wikimedia Foundation Medium-Term Plan feedback request[eedit soorce]

Please help translate to your language

The Wikimedia Foundation has published a Medium-Term Plan proposal covering the next 3–5 years. We want your feedback! Please leave all comments and questions, in any language, on the talk page, by April 20. Thank ye! Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 17:35, 12 Apryle 2019 (UTC)

Wikidata Bridge: edit Wikidata’s data from Wikipedia infoboxes[eedit soorce]

Redirect loops[eedit soorce]

Hello! The redirects listed at Special:DoubleRedirects cannot be fixed by my bot because they redirect over themselves. Can you please help locate the right page where those redirects should point to? Ping AmaryllisGardener, Fox & Avicennasis. Thank you! --MarcoAurelio (tauk) 11:06, 29 Juin 2019 (UTC)

Think a've fixit them aw for nou. 🦊 (tauk) 18:53, 29 Juin 2019 (UTC)
Hi Fox. Unfortunatelly they're still redirecting over themselves and my bot keeps complaining :-) MarcoAurelio (tauk) 12:08, 6 Julie 2019 (UTC)
Special:Diff/706106 fixed it, BUT now Member o the Scots Pairlament has no content. Special:Undelete/Member_o_the_Scots_Pairlament has had some previous content that you might want to restore. MarcoAurelio (tauk) 12:13, 6 Julie 2019 (UTC)

Editing News #1—July 2019[eedit soorce]

18:32, 23 Julie 2019 (UTC)

Update on the consultation about office actions[eedit soorce]

Hello all,

Last month, the Wikimedia Foundation's Trust & Safety team announced a future consultation about partial and/or temporary office actions. We want to let you know that the draft version of this consultation has now been posted on Meta.

This is a draft. It is not intended to be the consultation itself, which will be posted on Meta likely in early September. Please do not treat this draft as a consultation. Instead, we ask your assistance in forming the final language for the consultation.

For that end, we would like your input over the next couple of weeks about what questions the consultation should ask about partial and temporary Foundation office action bans and how it should be formatted. Please post it on the draft talk page. Our goal is to provide space for the community to discuss all the aspects of these office actions that need to be discussed, and we want to ensure with your feedback that the consultation is presented in the best way to encourage frank and constructive conversation.

Please visit the consultation draft on Meta-wiki and leave your comments on the draft’s talk page about what the consultation should look like and what questions it should ask.

Thank you for your input! -- The Trust & Safety team 08:03, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

New tools and IP masking[eedit soorce]

14:18, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Note[eedit soorce]

Please see: Category collogue:Wikipaedia categorisation#Overhaul categories faer an RFC on Categories. –MJLTauk 21:17, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

The consultation on partial and temporary Foundation bans just started[eedit soorce]

-- Kbrown (WMF) 17:14, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

Feedback wanted on Desktop Improvements project[eedit soorce]

07:18, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

Beta feature "Reference Previews"[eedit soorce]

-- Johanna Strodt (WMDE) 09:47, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

Editing News #2 – Mobile editing and talk pages[eedit soorce]

11:12, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia Asian Month 2019[eedit soorce]

Please help translate to your language

WAM logo without text.svg

Wikipedia Asian Month is back! We wish you all the best of luck for the contest. The basic guidelines of the contest can be found on your local page of Wikipedia Asian Month. For more information, refer to our Meta page for organizers.

Looking forward to meet the next ambassadors for Wikipedia Asian Month 2019!

For additional support for organizing offline event, contact our international team on wiki or on email. We would appreciate the translation of this message in the local language by volunteer translators. Thank you!

Wikipedia Asian Month International Team.

MediaWiki message delivery (tauk) 16:57, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Partial blocks[eedit soorce]

CLOSIT:

Consensus i favour. Nae closit faer recordin. –MJLTauk 21:57, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

A lot of other Wikipedias have already implemented partial blocks. Harassment has not been a major issue on sco.wiki (thank gosh), but I would like to see us have this tool in our toolbelt if so needed. If there is no objections, I will author a task on Phabricator to get it done.

@AmaryllisGardener, Cuatro Remos, DannyS712, Fixer88, Sije, and Chongkian: Would you support this proposal? –MJLTauk 18:13, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Agreed, I support having them implemented. --Cuatro Remos (tauk) 18:14, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
Sounds good to me. --AmaryllisGardener talk 19:02, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
Support. --Sije (tauk) 19:57, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
Depending on the severity of the harassment though, but I do support this. Chongkian (tauk) 00:28, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Extension of Wikipedia Asian Month contest[eedit soorce]

In consideration of a week-long internet block in Iran, Wikipedia Asian Month 2019 contest has been extended for a week past November. The articles submitted till 7th December 2019, 23:59 UTC will be accepted by the fountain tools of the participating wikis.

Please help us translate and spread this message in your local language.

Wikipedia Asian Month International Team

--MediaWiki message delivery (tauk) 14:16, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

@AmaryllisGardener, Cuatro Remos, DannyS712, Fixer88, Sije, Chongkian, and MJL:

Partial blocks model policy[eedit soorce]

Hello all,

(Apology for writing in English) I'm writing to let you know that now there is a Partial block model policy on Meta. If this wiki does not have a policy to cover partial blocks then the model policy could be adapted for this wiki. Or if you have already written a customized policy for this wiki, you can share it on the Meta page for possible use by other wikis. There is also a page where you can share examples of the way that you are using partial block on this wiki.

Please contact me if you have questions or comments about partial block. Regards, SPoore (WMF) (tauk) 21:49, 6 Dizember 2019 (UTC)

@SPoore (WMF): We sadly don't have a lot policies written down. Therefore, I just made Wikipedia:Partial block link to m:Partial block model policy. :) –MJLTauk 13:19, 12 Dizember 2019 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Folklore[eedit soorce]

WLL Subtitled Logo (transparent).svg

Hello Folks,

Wiki Loves Love is back again in 2020 iteration as Wiki Loves Folklore from 1 February, 2020 - 29 February, 2020. Join us to celebrate the local cultural heritage of your region with the theme of folklore in the international photography contest at Wikimedia Commons. Images, videos and audios representing different forms of folk cultures and new forms of heritage that haven’t otherwise been documented so far are welcome submissions in Wiki Loves Folklore. Learn more about the contest at Meta-Wiki and Commons.

Kind regards,
Wiki Loves Folklore International Team
— Tulsi Bhagat (contribs | talk)
sent using MediaWiki message delivery (tauk) 06:15, 18 Januar 2020 (UTC)

Movement Learning and Leadership Development Project[eedit soorce]

Hello

The Wikimedia Foundation’s Community Development team is seeking to learn more about the way volunteers learn and develop into the many different roles that exist in the movement. Our goal is to build a movement informed framework that provides shared clarity and outlines accessible pathways on how to grow and develop skills within the movement. To this end, we are looking to speak with you, our community to learn about your journey as a Wikimedia volunteer. Whether you joined yesterday or have been here from the very start, we want to hear about the many ways volunteers join and contribute to our movement.

To learn more about the project, please visit the Meta page. If you are interested in participating in the project, please complete this simple Google form. Although we may not be able to speak to everyone who expresses interest, we encourage you to complete this short form if you are interested in participating!

-- LMiranda (WMF) (talk) 19:01, 22 Januar 2020 (UTC)

New logo for sco.wikipedia.com[eedit soorce]

Frae Wikipedia, the free beuk o knawledge

After seeing this "Frae Wikipedia, the free beuk o knawledge" on every page, I wondered why this wasn't reflected in our logo. I've updated the source SVG to have the subtitle and if we get consensus we can go to Phabricator to get the logo on all pages changed.

If there are any changes/objections, I would be glad to hear them out and make the requisite changes.

Sorry for my lack of Scots, the Aberdonian private schools don't foster a doric friendly environment. --Carlinmack (tauk) 03:15, 30 Januar 2020 (UTC)

Please fix spellin: "Wikipædia" (or "Wikipaedia"). --Sije (tauk) 19:25, 31 Januar 2020 (UTC)
enwiki now uses Wikipedia, is there a reason for using "æ" or "ae" in Scots? I'm happy to change it, I'm just interested if there's a reason for it --Carlinmack (tauk) 14:20, 1 Februar 2020 (UTC)
It seems to be more correct in Scots although I'm no expert. It's how the word is spelled in the current logo. Pinging User:MJL and User:Fixer88. What do you say? Sije (tauk) 21:39, 2 Februar 2020 (UTC)
@Sije and Carlinmack: I love the design of the new logo!
As for why it should have an "æ" or "ae", I'd believe it is because the "æ" is the closest to the root Encyclopædia. Scots leaves a lot in what English lost.
That being said, it does feel odd to be saying that all in a namespace called Wikipedia. :/ –MJLTauk 22:21, 2 Februar 2020 (UTC)
Maybe the namespace could also be changed. (I'm not familiar with the technicalities). Sije (tauk) 22:30, 2 Februar 2020 (UTC)
From my understanding of Scots, the way in which words are spelled is a reflection of their pronunciation. For example, s[oo]th and [oo]tbrak have the same vowel so are spelled with the same letter pair "oo". What pronunciation does "enclopædia" have in Scots? what does the "æ" sound like? I imagine that most would say something similar to "encyclopeedeea". I think that would be more true to Scots rather than a classical spelling Carlinmack (tauk) 15:44, 20 Februar 2020 (UTC)
(en) This has been raised on Spellin Fettle page, and is probably the most fundamental spelling issue found so far. I would be uncomfortable with a change being made by the Wiki community alone (e.g. "encyclopeedeea" or "Wikipedie"), as that's how this mess happened in the first place. It needs professional academic input to advise on how it should be spelled, and the reasoning for it set out. I would suggest contacting Dr Michael Dempster of the Scots Language Centre (and also on the Scots wiki editors FB group) for an opinion. But great that this is being picked up on, and 'Free Beuk o Knawledge' reads well to me as a native-Scot. Soothrhins (tauk) 07:04, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Additional interface for edit conflicts on talk pages[eedit soorce]

Sorry, for writing this text in English. If you could help to translate it, it would be appreciated.

You might know the new interface for edit conflicts (currently a beta feature). Now, Wikimedia Germany is designing an additional interface to solve edit conflicts on talk pages. This interface is shown to you when you write on a discussion page and another person writes a discussion post in the same line and saves it before you do. With this additional editing conflict interface you can adjust the order of the comments and edit your comment. We are inviting everyone to have a look at the planned feature. Let us know what you think on our central feedback page! -- For the Technical Wishes Team: Max Klemm (WMDE) 14:15, 26 Februar 2020 (UTC)

Please block Special:Contributions/31.4.177.6 and Special:Contributions/47.60.43.124[eedit soorce]

Sorry if this is not in the right place - I couldn't find the proper place, and had difficulties finding this one :) as mass murderer - thanks ! --Hsarrazin (tauk) 09:29, 29 Februar 2020 (UTC)

PS : Also, John Cena seems rather strange (probably hacked) to me, but I'm in no position to really evaluate it.

PPS : Please, who's admin here ? IPs seem to have had fun these last hours ? --Hsarrazin (tauk) 09:49, 29 Februar 2020 (UTC)

I've warned them, since the edits seem to have stopped and blocks are only to prevent damage. If they continue, I'll block them. Avicennasis (tauk) 11:54, 29 Februar 2020 (UTC)
thanks Avicennasis,
I undid dozens of those edits - similar pattern : famous people, date of death the day of the edit or about it, or change date of birth to be very recent...
as for John Cena, could you please check the article ? - I don't understand scottish, but the long text of song, under the presentation seems bizarre... :( - I only found the problem with death dates because I update wikidata with https://tools.wmflabs.org/pltools/recentdeaths/ :) — Precedin unsigned comment addit bi Hsarrazin (talk) 15:27, 3 Mairch 2020‎ (UTC)

Editing news 2020 #1 – Discussion tools[eedit soorce]

19:25, 8 Apryle 2020 (UTC)

Please (semi)-protect Template:MainPage/styles.css[eedit soorce]

(apologies for English) I've rewritten the Main Page to use TemplateStyles, which will make it work better on small screens and easier to edit in the future. However the new page uses Template:MainPage/styles.css which is not yet protected. Much of the rest of the Main Page is only semi-protected, so that should be enough here too. (I would have posted at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection, but that page doesn't appear to be used). The wub (tauk) 17:16, 6 Mey 2020 (UTC)

Editing news 2020 #2[eedit soorce]

20:33, 17 Juin 2020 (UTC)

Annual contest Wikipedia Pages Wanting Photos[eedit soorce]

Wikipedia Pages Wanting Photos (WPWP)

This is to invite you to join the Wikipedia Pages Wanting Photos (WPWP) campaign to help improve Wikipedia articles with photos and win prizes. The campaign starts today 1st July 2020 and closes 31st August 2020.

The campaign primarily aims at using images from Wikimedia Commons on Wikipedia articles that are lacking images. Participants will choose among Wikipedia pages without photo images, then add a suitable file from among the many thousands of photos in the Wikimedia Commons, especially those uploaded from thematic contests (Wiki Loves Africa, Wiki Loves Earth, Wiki Loves Folklore, etc.) over the years.

Please visit the campaign page to learn more about the WPWP Campaign.

With kind regards,

Thank you,

Deborah Schwartz Jacobs, Communities Liaison, On behalf of the Wikipedia Pages Wanting Photos Organizing Team - 08:24, 1 Julie 2020 (UTC)

feel free to translate this message to your local language when this helps your community

Feedback on movement names[eedit soorce]

Hello. Apologies if you are not reading this message in your native language. Please help translate to your language if necessary. Thank ye!

There are a lot of conversations happening about the future of our movement names. We hope that you are part of these discussions and that your community is represented.

Since 16 June, the Foundation Brand Team has been running a survey in 7 languages about 3 naming options. There are also community members sharing concerns about renaming in a Community Open Letter.

Our goal in this call for feedback is to hear from across the community, so we encourage you to participate in the survey, the open letter, or both. The survey will go through 7 July in all timezones. Input from the survey and discussions will be analyzed and published on Meta-Wiki.

Thanks for thinking about the future of the movement, --The Brand Project team, 19:42, 2 Julie 2020 (UTC)

Note: The survey is conducted via a third-party service, which may subject it to additional terms. For more information on privacy and data-handling, see the survey privacy statement.

Bot flag request for NadzikBOT[eedit soorce]

Hi! 'Allo! I recently discovered your wiki through Small Wiki Monitoring Team. I would like to request bot flag for NadzikBOT (collogue · contreebs).

  • Bot: NadzikBOT (flags on pl.wiki, af.wiki).
  • Owner: Nadzik (Meta-Wiki page; other projects).
  • Basic tasks that I plan to perform:
  • Tools that I will use:
    • Auto Wiki Browser
    • Java Script Wiki Browser
    • WPCleaner
  • Operational mode: semi-automatic via the above-mentioned tools, supervised by me.
  • Approval: if there won't be opposition, I will:
    • Ask the Stewards to assign the bot flag to NadzikBOT (as there are no local Bureaucrat),
    • Perform the above-mentioned tasks. I will consult adding new tasks to the bot account.

Thank you for your time. Please let me know if you would like to ask me any questions. Please use {{ping}}, as this is not my main project and I can miss your answer. Cheers! Nadzik (tauk) 10:51, 7 Julie 2020 (UTC)

Tagging AmaryllisGardener (collogue · contreebs), as we discussed it earlier already. Cheers! Nadzik (tauk) 10:51, 7 Julie 2020 (UTC)
I'll also tag @Avicennasis:, @Fox: and @MJL: as they are other admins on this project. Cheers! Nadzik (tauk) 16:36, 10 Julie 2020 (UTC)

Editing news 2020 #3[eedit soorce]

12:55, 9 Julie 2020 (UTC)

Announcing a new wiki project! Welcome, Abstract Wikipedia[eedit soorce]

Sent by m:User:Elitre (WMF) 20:10, 9 Julie 2020 (UTC) - m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia/July 2020 announcement

The Universal Code of Conduct (UCoC): we want to hear from you.[eedit soorce]

Technical Wishes: FileExporter and FileImporter become default features on all Wikis[eedit soorce]

Max Klemm (WMDE) 09:14, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Criticism of language quality on Reddit[eedit soorce]

I haven't been involved in this project and I don't speak Scots. I think it would be relevant to inform you about this post on Reddit's r/Scotland:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Scotland/comments/ig9jia/ive_discovered_that_almost_every_single_article/

I can't judge whether the criticism is correct or not, but it seems like a lot of people are very worked up about it. The criticism is aimed specifically at AmaryllisGardener and there doesn't seem to be much understanding of the collaborative nature of a Wikipedia Project, even a small one with only a handful of active administrators.

Peter Isotalo (tauk) 18:22, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

I've been trying to explain the wiki culture on this thread here
https://old.reddit.com/r/linguistics/comments/igbbh2/the_scots_language_wikipedia_is_edited_primarily/
but people are angry nonetheless. Without any replacement of editing power, I don't see a reason to stop the user in question, the "damage" has already been done and can be fixed by anybody who cares. Additionally, all of the guidelines on how to write good scots still exist Wikipedia:Spellin_an_grammar and there seem to be external community efforts to fix the damage
https://mobile.twitter.com/cobradile94/status/1298320405111943168
Carlinmack (tauk) 20:58, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
I've been trying to stress that this has been done in good faith and that the way to move forward is to help to improve the language, not to fume about it on external forums. This post hinted that an editathon might be in the making:
https://www.reddit.com/r/linguistics/comments/igbbh2/the_scots_language_wikipedia_is_edited_primarily/g2ubaoa?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Maybe it's the same alluded to in the tweet.
Sorry if I'm intervening as a bit of an outsider here, but as someone who's been around the projects for a while and happened to see the Reddit post, I couldn't help trying to provide some support.
--Peter Isotalo (tauk) 21:11, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
There's this Wikimedia forum thread in case anyone's interested: m:Wikimedia_Forum#Scots_Wikipedia_is_largely_not_written_in_Scots - BirdCities (tauk) 21:25, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Peter Isotalo, You're doing great! BTW Scots on Reddit should take a constructive approach in this affair. WhisperToMe (tauk) 18:26, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Important: maintenance operation on September 1st[eedit soorce]

Trizek (WMF) (talk) 13:49, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Admeenistrater request to fix a mess I've made of the Fitba article's history[eedit soorce]

Hiya, in attempting to fix what I thought would be a small thing, I've made a mess of some pages' edit histories. As per discussion on Collogue:Fitbaw, I saught to muiv Fitbaw to Fitba, which was then a redirect to the former page. The muiv failed saying that "A page o that name aareadies exists, or the name ye'v waled isna guid. Please wale anither name." My solution was to move Fitba (and associated collogue) to Uiser:James Hyett/saundbox, thinking this would make the error message go away. It didn't, so I decided to just copy and paste the content of Fitbaw into Fitba. Of course, the Collogue page was moved to Uiser collogue:James Hyett/saundbox, and the new Fitba's edit history was all under Fitbaw, with nothing like enwiki's {{Copied}} template to indicate what had happened.

So: currently the content on the page Fitba has no history before today, all that edit history is under Fitbaw, while the previously-redirect page Fitba's actual history is at Uiser:James Hyett/saundbox Additionally, Collogue:Fitba's edit history is wiped, currently located at Uiser collogue:James Hyet (explained below). I'm sorry for this bizarre cock-up, but hopefully someone with admeenistrater privileges can help sort it out.

Update as I am writing this: in order to find the text of the error message, I moved Collogue:Fitba from Uiser collogue:James Hyett/saundbox first to Uiser collogue:Fitba then to Uiser collogue:James Hyet. I'm going to step away now, and stick to rowbacking... James Hyett (tauk) 17:18, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Gaun Forrit[eedit soorce]

Am no a seasoned Wikipedian, a ken how tae dae an eedit an if a can see somthin tae fix a usually dae. Av seen the furore aboot Scots wiki, an also the AMA MJL did. Av jist got an account, but thocht o sharing som o ma ideas fir makin forrit.Soothrhins (tauk) 07:41, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Style guide[eedit soorce]

In his reddit/AMA, MJL said a Dictionair as an idea fir improvement. A dinnae hink that wid help much. Here’s how:

  • Scots is a non-stannerised leid, an while it is still a livin livin leid, it’s primarily wan that is spoke not screived
  • While it’s still alive, it disnae hae the recogneetion o ither leids, e.g. Gaelic, that can pay scholars tae issue guidance on new wurds that wer no around in the 18t century
  • Folk dinnae hae skills in Scots alone, but Scots an English. So the above reality means in the maist pairt we end up borrowin English wurds tae communicate.
  • If the Dicitonair o Scots Leid (led by scholars) cannae gie comprehensive Scots spellins, a struggling sco wiki ne’er will.

Whit a wid suggest is an improved style guide. So biggit on whits ootlined in the RSSCC but showin folk the rules an systems that tak place. This would need tae hae linguistic input, and shuid be based on the soond o wurds spoken, ootline the rules/rationale/etc an then ablo list agreed examples o wurds that ar then a stannar fir draftin airticles. Soothrhins (tauk) 07:41, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

@Soothrhins: I'm not male, but I agree with the remainder of what you said. –MJLTauk 09:25, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
@MJL: Sincerest apologies, am usually maun better at no assuming pronouns. Soothrhins (tauk) 09:40, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Quality no Quantity[eedit soorce]

Haen had a scance aroon som o the {{fixscots}} airticles, it seems that a desire fir quantity no quality haes been pursued on sco wiki. It is whit it is thou. Makin forrit, a hink a muckle cleanup operation is needit. In ither words the Scots wiki has ootgrown the fluent/native scrievers that can maintain it. Which maks me hink that the project needs tae hae a focus wi smaller ambition than nou.

e.g. dae we really need airticles on IMI Galil ur Kay Bailey Hutchison when the Glesga page is a pure midden?

This is whar ma lack o Wiki policy experience will show, so be kind.

Whit am thinkin is that ye develop a new flag up procedure fir deleting airticles that are poor quality, an hae little connection tae Scots at present. Akin tae on EN Wikipedia when airticles ar deleted cos they dinnae meet a relevance criteria (pretty sure George Bowie bio airticle was deleted fir no bein relevant, tell that tae somwan blastin oot Clyde 1 on a Sat nite gettin mwi!).

Recognisin the unfortunate position sco wiki has foond itsell, surely we could mak a process for it? As a starter, here’s criteria to markup for deletion:

  • is a stub
  • has poor use o Scots leid
  • has little connection tae Scots leid/livin examples o Scots use

Aye, it’ll undo wurk o som ithers, but we hae seen no anely ootrage fae Scots spikkers, but non-Scots folk sayin it meant they misunnerstood whit Scots is. So tae me, it is needit. Soothrhins (tauk) 07:41, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

First up, apologies for speaking English on a non-English language version of Wikipedia. I found this discussion through a comment made by an editor in an RFC on meta.wikimedia.org. Regarding this 'quality no quantity' point, I'd perhaps suggest requiring all new articles to go through a version of the WP:AFC process, regardless of who wrote the article, and requiring each new article to be reviewed by a native-level Scots speaker. This would, at the very least, ensure that there is a base 'good' version of the page. This would require a number of native-level reviewers - but every action involving making the Scots language Wikipedia function requires this. Domeditrix (tauk) 16:13, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
Support @Domeditrix: Sounds like a guid idea. (An no need tae apologise if yer contrebution is constructive!) Soothrhins (tauk) 20:03, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Comment (apologies for English, not confident enough with Scots atm) Domeditrix Soothrhins This list - Wikipedia:Leet o airticles that aa Wikipedias shuid hae could be a good resource for looking at articles to prioritise. Sara Thomas (WMUK) (tauk) 11:26, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Support for non-native[eedit soorce]

Am aw fir non-native spikkers an screivers o Scots. But we need tae recognise that it is a leid that we grew up aroon (maistly), and ne’er lairned fae textbukes (again maistly). So we need tae support non-native folk who ar somtimes mair willin tae contribute than native screivers. Especially when that isnae ony guid auto-translate tools oot thar.

When a see some {{fixscots}} examples, they can sometimes be sic a midden a widnae ken whar tae start. But if ye hink how it got there, a body took some (usually) English content an gied a bash at translatin.

So anither initiative a hink is needit is fir Collogue pages. If a template wis made whar a uiser could put in original English an thar Scots attempt side by side, that wid help native Scots in improvin the translation afore it is put on the main airticle. Soothrhins (tauk) 07:41, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


JS helper to go through every single page at ease[eedit soorce]

Tool

Enhanced version: yue:wikt:User:H78c67c/nextcurid.js

For what it's worth, I made this tool (when I wanted to clean up other similarly bad wikis but I gave up under similar circumstances when those perpetrators gained control of the wikis because of seniority and they actively block cleanup efforts 🤣). You could adapt the enhanced version or copy the following primitive version into a JS and fire it up using tampermonkey etc. Then you can start copyediting from https://sco.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?redirect=no&curid=2 or any number you like.

Extended content
// ==UserScript==
// @name Next Wikipedia Page by ID
// @namespace
// @description Link to next Wikipedia page by page id (less intrusive than redirection).
// @icon https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Next_Arrow.svg/200px-Next_Arrow.svg.png
// @author Roy Zuo (based on a script by Franklin Yu, greasyfork script id 38438)
// @match https://*.wikipedia.org/*
// @grant none
// @version 0.0.1.20181209165600
// ==/UserScript==

const lang = location.host.split('.')[0];

let curidnext;
curidnext = parseInt(new URLSearchParams(location.search).get('curid'))+1;

const anchor = document.createElement('a');
anchor.href = `https://${lang}.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?redirect=no&curid=${curidnext}`;
const image = document.createElement('img');
image.src = 'https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Next_Arrow.svg/200px-Next_Arrow.svg.png';
image.id = 'nextarrow-image';
anchor.appendChild(image);
document.getElementById('firstHeading').prepend(anchor);

const style = document.createElement('style');
style.type = 'text/css';
style.appendChild(document.createTextNode('#nextarrow-image { width: 2em; }'));
document.head.appendChild(style);

My two cents

If you search main namespace pages that are both page creations and most recent edition (i.e. page never edited after creation) by the user https://sco.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?target=AmaryllisGardener&namespace=0&tagfilter=&topOnly=1&newOnly=1&start=&end=&limit=500&title=Special%3AContributions , there're currently 18000~18500 pages. I would suggest get a bot to delete them all. That'll be about 10~20% of nonsense gone. (Although a few pages are valid redirects, I think it's reasonable collateral damage.)--RZuo (tauk) 09:49, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Deletion, etc is being discussed at length on meta. What exactly does this script do that doesn't get done with word replacement on AWB? The biggest issues are grammatical from the discussion, how does this fix those issues? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 09:58, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
lol. for one AWB is cumbersome to use or learn. anyone could fire this JS up in a minute and start editing with zero prior knowledge. it seems apparent no native Scots speaker is active wiki editor much less AWB users right? for two, this JS lets users visit by curid (curid doesnt change no matter what's done to the page), so technically users can coordinate and divide the wiki into different sections. fixing work has to be done by humans and this tool is just a helper. i dont suppose you mean replace nonsense with AWB-auto-generated content when you say fix right?--RZuo (tauk) 10:23, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
No, I was simply asking what the script does. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 18:01, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Category: Pages translatit frae Inglis Wikipaedia[eedit soorce]

I've come across this category, and haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else in the discussion here or on Meta. Thought it might be a useful set of articles that are already tagged that bots/AWB/whatever could be used on, if there's concern over letting bots loose on the entire wiki at first. James Hyett (tauk) 18:39, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

This is the list of articles that use the {{translatit page}} template - so it would be a subset of translated articles, as doesn't do this automatically (ignoring manual translations.) Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 20:32, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Jimmy?[eedit soorce]

Putting an English sentence involving "a man" into the http://www.scotranslate.com/ tool returns "a jimmy" as a noun. In my 60+ years in central Scotland I've come across "Haw Jimmy, gizza fag" etc but never "He is a jimmy". The DSL has my first example ("familiar term of address to a man, usually a stranger") but not this other form. Can anyone point to different usage anywhere across the land? See a live instance of this in a new page here, though now marked for deletion.

I'll also add that scotranslate renders "woman" to "wifie" - not "woman" or "wimmin", but imposing a marital status. Again, the DSL does not agree. (And aye, the Percy Sledge song does come out as "Whin a jimmy loues a wifie".)

If scotranslate is mistranslating such common words, as well as sometimes mangling the 5th month of the year into "kin" (e.g. [2]), then does something need to be done to make clear that it is inappropriate to use for article text here? AllyD (tauk) 13:22, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

(en) Ooft! That's a tricky one to back up with other sources (e.g. the Scots Corpus) as it is also a name. Is 'jimmy' not usually used in the sense of 'you', rather than 'man'; e.g. "Haw you, gizza fag". I suppose if we were to think of what 'queens english' would say as equivalent it would be "Excuse me sir, would you give me a cigarette?" which is maybe where the conflation is coming from?
On wifie, I've only ever heard folk who use NE Scots describe any woman as a wifie, but it has been done regardless of marital status.
The fact that Sco Translate is a crowdsourced tool is maybe one the reasons it's throwing out anomalies. Soothrhins (tauk) 13:49, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
(en) I've relatives in the central belt who use 'wifie' to refer to women of any age, even teenagers. They've been doing this since they were teenagers too.--Illandancient (tauk) 14:51, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
Having looked at the scotranslate.com site closer it does say English > Scottish not English > Scots. Soothrhins (tauk) 16:23, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
It isnae a serious project, fae the footer: "Results may not accurately reflect Scotish dialect and are provided for entertainment purposes only." Monospaced (tauk) 22:01, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
Think this may date from the early 60s, at least in Leith. A friend of my faither was called Jimmy, and he got really annoyed that suddenly people were shouting "Hey Jimmy" in the street meaning "Hey you" and nothing more specific, often not aimed at him at all. Language evolves. . . dave souza (tauk) 12:34, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

(in Inglis) Request Translation for draft of Translation Needed Template (ironically)[eedit soorce]

Following a question regarding translating untranslated (rather than mistranslated) text over on Spellin Fettle's collogue, I've drafted up Uiser:James Hyett/Template:TranslatePassage, and would appreciate it if a native speaker could have a go at translating the English before the template is published. I think it'd be particularly useful to have this template published in advance of the edit-a-thon, for things like the references on 2012 Unitit States presidential election or for inner workings like Template:Documentation. James Hyett (tauk) 22:07, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

(en)I've added one to the collogue, you might want someone else to look over before committing to it. Soothrhins (tauk) 17:48, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
(in Inglis) Cheers! James Hyett (tauk) 20:23, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
(en) In order to get a nice and functional Wikipedia:Paiges wantin translatin intae Scots, I've gone ahead and created a few more templates that will work together to make tagging pages needing translation easier. I've listed them all on my User page. James Hyett (tauk) 22:57, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Puckle Proposals[eedit soorce]

(sco) A addit a section tae the main debate on WikiMedia aboot puckle hings the wider Wiki community cuid gie us a haun wi. Ye can see them an comments here (Puckle Proposals), hopin that som folk that ken the tech can tak som o the ideas forrit fast! Soothrhins (tauk) 14:34, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Spellin Fettle[eedit soorce]

As a put forrit on WikiMedia discussion, a hink we need a dedicatit [Wikipedia:Spellin Fettle] page tae haud the common spellin errors thegither an note actions taken. A hae asked admin MJL on thar opinion, but if ither folk spierin ablo support it a will mak it. Soothrhins (tauk) 17:30, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

(en) Admin MJL is happy with this proposal, and I think it will be a massive help to new users coming in, and future edithons to have the same issue being dealt with on one consistent page. Have asked a quick tech question of MJL, so once I have confidence from that, that I'm not going to muck it up, I'll make it an transfer similar discussions over. Soothrhins (tauk) 17:57, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, this all seems like a good idea. Have you created a draft for these spelling changes somewhere (ignore me if I've already stated this.) Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 18:03, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
(en) Some are being discussed below, I think its going to be a rolling process as and when things are found, hence why I'm keen for their to be a dedicated 'workspace' (as such) to keep them together. Soothrhins (tauk) 18:05, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
I suggest drafting up something in userspace User:Soothrhins/Spellin fettle and then doing a move to mainspace. Quite happy to give you a hand. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 18:12, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
(en) As you were writing that up, I had already made it sorry! Wikipedia:Spellin Fettle I could do with a hand moving the below discussions over to it? Soothrhins (tauk) 18:31, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── - sure thing. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 18:32, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Previous spierins and tauk on spellins hae been removed an aw instances raised addit tae Wikipedia:Spellin Fettle

Makin new page[eedit soorce]

See meta:Requests_for_comment/Large_scale_language_inaccuracies_on_the_Scots_Wikipedia#p.4_Clarify_expected_norms_for_page_creation. Current and suggested wirds here:

Ye'v follaed an airtin til a page that disna exist yet. Tae create the page, stert typin in the box ablo (see the help page for mair info). Gin ye'r here by mistak, juist dab yer brouser's back button.
(new) Yer airticle's text maun be verifiable fae reliable ithir soorces. Text taken fae copyright soorces will be deleted, an dinna paste wirds fae machine-translation.(/new)
(Input box)
Bi hainin chynges, ye agree tae the Terms o Uiss, n ye onrevocablie agree tae release yer contreebution unner the CC BY-SA 3.0 License n the GFDL. Ye agree that ae hyperairtin or URL is suffeeciant attreebution unner the Creative Commons license.

Improvements welcome. AllyD (tauk) 07:47, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Jist tae note the uise o 'hained' (an sic) in this way haes been speired on Spellin Fettle Soothrhins (tauk) 10:14, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
@AllyD and Soothrhins: I left in hained for now until that gets sorted. –MJLTauk 17:34, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Infobox for Scots learners[eedit soorce]

Should we make a wee user infobox for people who are actively learning Scots to add to their profile? Not essential, but a nice thing to add for people coming to help us. Soothrhins (tauk) 01:40, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

I went ahead and made {{Uiser sco-learnin}}. Might not be the prettiest though, I'm not a graphic designer. my_hat_stinks (tauk) 13:58, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

(en) The Big Wiki Rewrite - low hanging fruit[eedit soorce]

Hey folks, ran a couple of queries on PetScan, there's some low-hanging fruit in terms of stubs:

Running these queries should (if I've done it right) bring up a list of very short articles which could be easily fixed, then the tag removed... Lirazelf (tauk) 18:31, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

<3 James Salsman (tauk) 01:03, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
A lot of those stubs were created by AG, so I would suggest putting a tag after they are fixed to indicate that they are in correct scots to make sure that an automated deletion of all articles created by AG does not delete the fixed articles. Zoozaz1 (tauk) 16:34, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
Zoozaz1 This is a good point! Any ideas for a tag? Also, could you add that at the meta thread if you haven't already? Would be useful there, I think. Sara Thomas (WMUK) (tauk) 11:48, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
Thinking about it some more, we could use a tag saying that this page has been translated to Scots from x (Scotched English, Scottish English, English) that might already exist. Now there might be some articles, if the template has been created, already in the category, but we could just remove their tags if there aren't in Scots. Looking at the proposals on meta it seems like they are only deleting them if all/most of the content was created by AG, but they are also proposing auditing it, and if you applied a tag that would mean it would skip being audited and not take up more volunteer time. Zoozaz1 (tauk) 12:43, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
There's {{translatit page}} but that's already used on the talk page of a lot of poorly-translated articles. my_hat_stinks (tauk) 13:06, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
I've created a template specfically for articles translated from Scotched English here; it is pretty much a copy of the other template but with a different category. I'm not an expert on templates so I would appreciate it if someone fixed the template to make it more specific to scotched english. Zoozaz1 (tauk) 13:35, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
There are also topic-specific stub templates. This one is for Template:Stub/Scotland: Articles using the "fixscots" template that are stubs about Scotland. Lingo Bingo Dingo (tauk) 17:50, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

(en) New articles in Scottified English (?)[eedit soorce]

Dear community,

Unfortunately, the recent wave of publicity seems to attract people who still think Scots is a derivative of English. I will be careful in my judgement, but I have serious doubts about the language of this article. Can we agree that new articles in Scottified English will be deleted on sight? (And if I'm wrong about the language of this particular article: my apologies to the author.) Steinbach (tauk) 07:40, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

  • Support. This is a common sense measure. James Salsman (tauk) 08:22, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Kind of depends. Some are being added, caught, brought up on the Discord, and people have been fixing instead. If it can't be fixed though, yes delete. I think the sco:wiki community have been good at catching many of these type of things in the past few days. Soothrhins (tauk) 08:29, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
    @James Salsman and Steinbach: Articles not in Scots are deleted on sight. I don't know what this proposal is suggesting. –MJLTauk 17:56, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
    I wasn't quite sure of that, so I wanted to make it sure, to have it cemented somewhere as policy. By the way: the example I cited this morning has in fact not been deleted. Steinbach (tauk) 18:06, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

(en) Help with automatic templates[eedit soorce]

Hey! Sorry for writing in English. If you want help with templates and you want to make them automatic using Wikidata, contact me and I will help! -Theklan (tauk) 22:36, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

@Theklan:(en) No need to apologise for using English! A lot of us are Wiki-rookies beyond editing articles. Can you give us an idea of the kind of things auto templates with Wikidata could do for the sco:wiki? Thanks! soothrhins (tauk) 07:31, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
@Soothrhins:(en) Of course! You can see it action at some Wikipedias. Without the need to complete anything, you can see the template fully populated at eu:Mahatma Gandhi, eu:New York, eu:Eiffel dorrea or eu:Gioconda. This makes creating articles much easier, as you don't need to worry about the templates anymore. -Theklan (tauk) 08:14, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

(en) English words which should not appear in correct Scots[eedit soorce]

Hi! I've been trying to figure out how to make a bot conforming to various proposals, and I could use help from some polyglot native Scots, please. [3] is a list of English words derived from [4] which I think should almost never occur in correct Scots (unless in quotations, etc.) I would like to ask native Scots speakers to please categorize them into certain and questionable, by posting the shorter of the two lists on my talk page, please. Thank you all in advance! James Salsman (tauk) 18:26, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

I've not checked them all, but big (DSL, Corpus) and boy (DSL, Corpus) can both be used in Scots. my_hat_stinks (tauk) 18:37, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
  • Is this not what native Scots are already doing on the Fettle page? 82.132.216.168 (talk) 18:55, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
Close. James Salsman (tauk) 19:02, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
Don’t suppose that they might know better how to fix mistakes in their language? 82.132.216.168 (talk) 22:01, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
Suppose even the best at anything of the sort can use help from math? James Salsman (tauk) 23:15, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Here's a preliminary suspect list from the word frequencies. I haven't looked at any of the category names yet. James Salsman (tauk) 20:08, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Based on that measure, here is a list of Suspected Scotched English articles. James Salsman (tauk) 08:18, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

New: by length of article. James Salsman (tauk) 16:47, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

See Vocabulary for insichts. Jimmy~scowiki (tauk) 20:30, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

@Jimmy~scowiki: thank you! [5] is extremely helpful, too. Do you know how to find a list of Gaelic words which do not appear in proper Scots? James Salsman (tauk) 14:47, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
This Scots to Gaelic comparison spreadsheet is from illandancient on discord. James Salsman (tauk) 19:46, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
That is a difficult one. Scots dialects along the Highland line or in the South-West where Gaelic was still spoken a few hundred years ago may use Gaelic words though they often won't be immediately recognised as such by the people using them. I suppose you'll find those in Scots dictionaries. There's a bit about Gaelic influence on Scots on p.65 of An Introduction to Modern Scots.
Jimmy~scowiki (tauk) 20:01, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
I was working on combining Gàidhlig and Gaeilge, but I am suspending that effort because I can see from early counts that creating a non-content Draftspace (such as 'Scroll:') will be the most time-effective way to get 99% Scots in mainspace and on web indexes, achieving the more refined statistical outcome. James Salsman (tauk) 19:05, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

New Wikipedia Library Collections Now Available (September 2020)[eedit soorce]


Hello Wikimedians!

The TWL owl says sign up today!

The Wikipedia Library is announcing new free, full-access, accounts to reliable sources as part of our research access program. You can sign up for new accounts and research materials on the Library Card platform:

Many other partnerships are listed on our partners page, including Adam Matthew, EBSCO, Gale and JSTOR.

A significant portion of our collection now no longer requires individual applications to access! Read more in our recent blog post.

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Categories with a lot of less notable or fandomlike content[eedit soorce]

(en) The following categories about fictional works contain many pages or subcategories with pages that would be considered insufficiently notable on some editions of Wikipedia and may be more appropriate on a fandom Wikia:

In my view it would go too far to simply delete all the pages in these categories, as some of these characters are also mascots of their franchises or companies. I'm not really sure where to draw the line, so I post the links here instead of nominating individual pages for deletion. Lingo Bingo Dingo (tauk) 14:54, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

RFC anent Quotes[eedit soorce]

Sud furrain leid quotes be pit intae Scots or lea'ed in thair original leid?

(EN) Should foreign-language quotes be translated into Scots or left in their native language? -Cobra! (tauk) 08:36, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Where quotations are presented as direct quotations from a subject, care should be taken, including a link to a primary source or where there is none available it should be indicated whether the quotation is a translation from any other language. For example:-

Robert Scott Lauder RSA (Edinburgh 25 Juin 1803 – 21 Apryle 1869 Edinburgh) wis a Scots mid-Victorian airtist that descrived himsel as a "historical penter".

The original source of "historical penter" is the English wikipedia article text "historical painter", scholars might take years to search the Lauder estate and find he never uttered the word "penter". -- Illandancient (tauk) 10:32, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
Perhaps use of italics and no quotation marks to indicate translated quotations?

Robert Scott Lauder RSA (Edinburgh 25 Juin 1803 – 21 Apryle 1869 Edinburgh) wis a Scots mid-Victorian airtist that descrived himsel as a historical penter.

or something more explicit with wiki markup

Robert Scott Lauder RSA (Edinburgh 25 Juin 1803 – 21 Apryle 1869 Edinburgh) wis a Scots mid-Victorian airtist that descrived himsel as a "historical painter" (historical penter).

The page for Hoose o Orléans states the following

during the reign o Louis Philippe I. He ruled Fraunce unner the title "Keeg o the French"

How are we to know whether this is a typo from the translator or a direct quotation of a typo from Louis Philippe who wasn't quite fluent in Scots? --Illandancient (tauk) 09:19, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
Extended content
Furthermore, Fowkrepublic o Cheenae is a literal translation of the English official name the People's Republic of China, which was determined by professional translators either in the Chinese foreign ministry or the English one in 1949. The French official name is République populaire de Chine, again determined by either the Chinese foreign ministry or the French one. The German official name Volksrepublik China, determined by the German foreign ministry or the Chinese one. The Scots name was determined by neither the Chinese foreign ministry nor a hypothetical Scottish foreign ministry, nor the UK foreign ministry, it was translated by a North American teenager, who doesn't speak Scots.
Some Scottish authors have expressed interest in using the term "Fowkrepublic o Cheenae", but that is their prerogative, crafting original art. As a wikipedians I don't think such matters should be unilaterally decided. Its a country a with a thousand times more people than there are Scots speakers, if they look up what Scots call their country, for when they pop over on their summer holidays, they will be using a term that neither the Scots nor the Chinese have come up with, because there is no indication whether it was a badly translated term or an official term.

--Illandancient (tauk) 09:19, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

  • It is true that Fowkrepublic or Fowk's Republic would both be neologisms, but this is a feature of (probably) all languages. Cornish, Welsh, Nahuatl also don't have a memo from foreign ministries to determine the name of the country. Some other minority language wikis link to an etymology in a footnote if the name given is an neologism for that language. Example: https://ia.wikipedia.org/wiki/China#cite_note-1. If the situation were reversed, and Scotland changed it's name (post-independence or whatever), every other language, with official government support or not, would have to come up with a name for it, even though noone had ever called it that before. Entohist (tauk) 10:32, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
    @Entohist and Illandancient: This RFC was called about putting things in quotes which aren't in original Scots. Let's just focus on that than translating titles. That is currently being discussed here. –MJLTauk 19:45, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
  • fwiw, RSL likely didn't actually call *himself* a "historical painter". It was what was entered on his death certificate, and seems to be the source of the "quote". Entohist (tauk)
As far as I could tell the Fowkrepublic o Cheenae article was created on 3 May 2006‎, before the American Teenager started editing. I suspect the American Teenager is taking the flak for the fact that Scots is not an Ausbau language. The Scots language enthusiasts/revivalist who started the Scots Wikipedia will have been indulging in ad hoc Ausbau as the project progressed. As Scots effectively functions as varieties of colloquial English spoken in Scotland it is heteronomous with respect to Standard English so ultimately formal register terminology would be that of Standard English, perhaps spellt to indicate how it is said in a Scots accent.
Nogger (tauk) 21:02, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

(en) Possibly embarrassing translation of "Mount" as "Munt"[eedit soorce]

A discussion has gone over at the Mount Everest (formerly Munt Everest) talkpage over the use of (what seems to be) the pseudo-Scots word munt for mount. A quick search of the word on this site gives a range of other articles (Munt Olympus, Munt Lebanon Govrenorate, Munt Floridae, Munt Simeon Destrict and Munt Erebus to list a few) which seem to use this (mis?)translation from English. The Dictionary of the Scots Language does list this as a translation for the noun "mount", but not in the sense of "Mount X" as they seem to be used here. Plus, as early as 2014 there were concerns raised on the Everest page about its possible derogatory meaning. FWIW, scots-online.org does list "munt" as Scots for "mount", and "muntain" for "mountain".

Full disclosure: I created an article on this site on the Sermon on the Mount (which I originally called Sermon on the Munt in keeping with community standards, presuming them to be correct). I do not speak Scots so I do not know if this is an accurate translation, but as native Scots speakers have raised this as an issue and that the Everest page has been moved, there should be consistency at least on this Wikipaedia. --Bangalamania (tauk) 02:35, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

@Bangalamania: All articles have now been moved. (in Inglis)MJLTauk 05:25, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
In William Laughton Lorimer's much praised Scots Translation of the New Testament Revelations 14 has: "Syne I luikit, an thair afore my een wis the Lamb staundin on Munt Zion ..."
Of course Lorimer translated the New Testament into Broad Scots. What's being attempted here appears to be to produce a Wikipedia in what's left of that after a hundred or more years of dialect levelling towards standard English. That vernacular mix of surviving Scots forms, non-standard and standard English in not an autonomous ausbau language by any stretch of the imagination. Its local vernacular heteronomous with respect to standard English.
Nogger (tauk) 20:37, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

(en) Pheesicist, Pheesics, and Filosopher.[eedit soorce]

Re this comment on Reddit regarding the "ee" spellings in Scots Wikipaedia. These particular pages have been subject to much derision. Neither of them seem to exist in any reliable Scots Dictionaries online. "Philosophour" and "Phisik" exist in Auld Scots but seem to have been replaced by their English equivalents in modern Scots. (If I am wrong, I am happy to be corrected) --Bangalamania (tauk) 14:31, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Also applies to Physeecian, Pheesical chemistry, Pheesical quantity, Pheesical geografie, Pheesical strenth, Pheesical constant. I have moved some pages and categories that use these nonstandard "ee" spellings. --Bangalamania (tauk) 14:37, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
Agreed. "Pheesicist" in particular is on the spellin fettle's todo list, but I don't think there's any objections so feel free to fix it where you see it. my_hat_stinks (tauk) 14:39, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
The "ee" spellings probably represent what's described in the Dictionary of the Scots Language: "§ 45. Romance [i] — advice, fine, cry, sybo (an onion). When the Romance word came into Scots after this change was completed the ee [i] remains as in item, licence, oblige, liberal." [6] Also 1. as [i]: (1) in the stressed vowel of Romance words as civil, city, image, item, licence, minute, oblige, position, etc. (see Weekly Mag. (18 July 1771) 69 and P.L.D. § 45 and p. xliii), and in the ending -ise, as criticeese, idoleeze, etc., now obsol." [7] Which is no surprise after a hundred years or so of dialect levelling.
Nogger (tauk) 20:52, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
Agreed. Here's a complete list of the "phee" an "filo" words and occurrences on Scots wiki (2020-09-01): pheesics (456), pheesical (337), pheesicist (331), pheesiology (62), pheesician (40), pheesically (31), pheesiologist (22), astropheesicist (20), pheesicists (18), astropheesics (11), metapheesics (11), metapheesical (8), biopheesics (6), pheesicians (4), pheesiologically (4), ampheebious (3), geopheesicist (3), biopheesicist (3) and filologist (8), filosofer (233), filosofer's (4), filosofers (26), filosofical (55), filosofie (195), filosopher (27), filosophers (3), filosophical (3). There's not that many, and a handful have already been eliminated, leaving only re-direct pages. Can an admin advise on how to deal with page titles and categories?--Illandancient (tauk) 08:28, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Invitation to participate in the conversation[eedit soorce]

(Inglis) Norlin Airlan and Ulstèr-Scotch[eedit soorce]

(Inglis) Two things:

  1. Can someone please change all references from Norn Iron in the Norlin Airlan (Northern Ireland) article to Norlin Airlan, as that's clearly what is meant here.
  2. With regards to articles on this wiki pertaining to the areas on the island of Ireland where Ulstèr-Scotch is the dominant dialect, what is the language policy? For now, I would suggest the main article name at the very least should be in Ulster-Scots, with Lowland Scots in brackets of the article ambiguity is needed. e.g. "Norlin Airlan (Ulstèr-Scotch; kent in Lallans Scots as Northren Ireland) is ane o fower kintras o the Unitit Kinrick." or "The Männystrie o Fowkgates, Airts an Aisedom (Ulstèr-Scotch; kent in Lallans Scots as the Depairtment o Cultur Airts an Leisur) is a depairtment o the Norlin Airlan Executive..."
I am laith to suggest a policy like English Wikipedia's policy on national varieties of English; I think it would be good if the rest of the article was in Scots of whatever dialect, so long as it's consistent. But the name of the article and first mention at least should be in Ulster-Scots, I think. What does the community think? --Bangalamania (tauk) 00:46, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
  • I've replaced Norn Iron with Norlin Airlan within that article. I brought up the idea of having a similar policy for dialects with some contributors previously and the consensus was that it's a good principle but not a great concern for most articles right now. Where there might be a conflict or there's a particularly local subject I think it's the right policy to prefer the local byleid. I would note dialectal differences for widely used terms like 'Norlin Airlan' / 'Northren Ireland' or if the words are widely different regionally but not necessarily when there is an official Scots name. For example, I think NI Executive articles could just use Ulster Scots with the official English and Irish names noted in parenthesis (as the English and Irish wikis do). Monospaced (tauk) 08:01, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
@Bangalamania and Monospaced: I think that tagging pages with a template like {{byleid|Ulster Scots}} would be an excellent place to start before we move forward. –MJLTauk 08:20, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
@Bangalamania and Monospaced: On page 1 of his 1997 Ulster–Scots A Grammar of the Traditional Written and Spoken Language Philip Robinson maintains that "Ulster–Scots or 'Ullans' is a close relative of the language called Scots" further adding "In simple terms, the relationship between Ulster–Scots and Lallans could be compared to the relative positions of Irish and Scottish Gaelic." If that premise is accepted then Ulster-Scots should not be used in the Scots Wikipedia. Its a different language that should have its own Ulster-Scots Wikipedia. If that premise is rejected, then perhaps the bizarre spelling conventions in the Spelling Guide that go with it should also be rejected. An evidence based critique of that can be found here. Nogger (tauk) 18:38, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Suggestion: Have Lowland Scottish universities take a look at the grammar and spelling and suggest edits[eedit soorce]

Hello,

I would suggest publicly asking professors and/or their PhD candidates from Scottish universities to take a look at the articles and make changes.

Thanks, WhisperToMe (tauk) 18:21, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

The OU Scots Language and Culture course [8] by experts in the field states that Scots is a non-standard language.[9] That would indicate that any spelling or turn of phrase that can be understood by a Scots-speaker literate in English is as good as any other. Resources for schools inform that "you can spell Scots any way you want" (within reason of course). [10] I suspect that it was assumed that transactional or discursive writing for an encyclopedia is something that Scots would never be used for. An encyclopedia in the standard language to which the non-standard language is heteronomous can be found here.
The Spellin an grammar page suggests following the Report an Recommends o the Scots Spellin Comatee from 20 or so years ago. Why not follow that? Is there a better alternative? If so which?
Nogger (tauk) 18:21, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
(en) I can see where WhisperToMe is coming from, but there are 57k articles, and only handfuls of suitably qualified academics, who will have been pummelled by COVID planning for distant/blended learning. If the academics came to us asking to help, that would be a different matter. As Nogger outlines, there are plenty of resources and references that Scots speakers can use to bring up standards. soothrhins (tauk) 18:49, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
That's true. I was thinking that the academics who are qualified would ask their PhD students or the like to do some of the patrolling/work WhisperToMe (tauk) 13:47, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

(en) Recommending MediaWiki Draft namespace called Scroll[eedit soorce]

As per [11] and [12] I recommend that a Scots speaker propose a mw:Draft namespace called, for example, "Preliminary" Scroll and/or Jottin, and with at least five years of persistence. One use of such a draftspace which I support is to move everything that hasn't been edited in the past week into draftspace, and then worry about tags, templates, deletion, and bots from there. I don't think there is a faster way to get to 99% Scots in mainspace. Rescuing good Scots from drafts should be more interesting than removing bad Scots from mainspace. James Salsman (tauk) 19:13, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Update: Native speakers have suggested "Jottin" and "Scroll", I have changed the proposal to reflect that. James Salsman (tauk) 23:03, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Please see [13]. This is a tried and true solution which would cause the damage to be removed from search engine results, as the deletionists demand, but still allow as much time as needed to decide on further steps, such as any combination of deletion, templating, or categorization. It would be easy to have two draft namespaces, one of which, e.g. Jottin:, results in automatic deletion after a number of months, while the other, e.g. Scroll:, results in deletion after some number of years.

However, this will not happen and so the damage will persist until an appropriate resolution is supported by Scots speakers here. That is not my policy, if is the Mediawiki Foundation's. James Salsman (tauk) 18:18, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

The Broad Scots form of English scroll would appear to be scrow(e) with additional senses. Apparently something to do with L-vocalization. Nogger (tauk) 10:24, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

This section reads like a major proposal as is being discussed by the Wikimedia RfC, and as such should happen there? soothrhins (tauk) 10:30, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

(en) Further to my previous comment (which still stands), I have thought more about this. I'm very concerned that the consequences of such an action are not stated, to explain how it would affect editors trying to cleanup and improve this Wiki.
Irrespective of the outcome of the Wikimedia RfC, new editors have came forward (myself included) to make a start on putting this Wiki right, and on a stronger footing for the future. I would describe our current collective actions as sifting through the current mainspace and correcting, marking (for future correction) or deleting below par content.
I presume that this proposal does the opposite; assumes everything is substandard, and asks editors to sift through content to draw out good articles to return to the mainspace. I could be wrong, but that feels like a larger and more laborious task than our current way of working, it would also require more technical skill which may be a barrier to getting new editors involved.
This might not be the case, but as I referred to before, the consequences of this proposal are not explained. I'm therefore concerned that such a drastic action may do more harm than good. soothrhins (tauk) 09:56, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

[en] Bot RFA[eedit soorce]

Please see Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Cliverbot. –MJLTauk 17:51, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Establishin 'notability' policy[eedit soorce]

See proponed here: Wikipedia:Notability
Request for comments and votes for what to call it here: Wikipedia collogue:Notability
Aefauldlie - soothrhins (tauk) 10:11, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Label article dialect and language quality[eedit soorce]

Hello there, inspired by other small wikis, I would like to make the following suggestions:

  1. Add a label to each page to show in which variant/dialect it is written. This is used on many wikis in non-standardized langauges and prepares the reader/editor. Maybe this could be especially valuable for the Scots Wikipedia, since I hear stories where people wouldn't contribute since they think their Scots is bad just because their Scots is different from that used in a certain page.
  2. Mark the "quality" of the Scots used in an article. This--of course--won't help with AG's contributions, but maybe with people who only just start writing Scots. Plus, I would help others find articles that need help language-wise. Such a system is used in the Latin wikipedia.

Just my two cents. --84.182.148.193 (talk) 14:45, 24 September 2020 (UTC) --Andreas (tauk) 18:43, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

I like it! –MJLTauk 14:54, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
On (1.), aye, but as maist articles ar screived in a kind o general Scots, it wid be maist uiseful if a editor scrieves a page in total Ullans (for example).
On (2.), nice idea, but dinnae ken how ye wid grade quality o a non-standart leid wi oot causin quarrels. Mibbe sumhin ti leuk at lang intae the futur efter the muckle cleanup. soothrhins (tauk) 21:18, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
Point taken, and I kinda agree with your comment on 2.
A didna ken that there was something like a general Scots. I just though it might make sense when I stumbled upon a talk page where person (Glaswegian, iirc) mentioned they didna ken "ken". Also, there are several ways to design such a system: You could just go with the major dialect groups (insular, northern, central, southern, Ullans and Doric). That is if they aren't purely an academic thing and people know about them. Or you could use a "braid", "general" and "urban" system. In both cases you could allow for a variable where the authors could add their town or county. Apart from Ullans, something like Caithness Scots might also be worth labeling. Anywho, it's just something that came to mind from reading comments here and elsewhere. --Andreas (tauk) 22:20, 24 September 2020 (UTC) Btw, is there an article in Ullans?
A hae seen yin scrieved in Ullans an non-Ullans on the same page (an labelled). Can a mind whit it was? No! A hink thare's miles in settin sumhin up lik {{byleid|freetext ti pit the byleid in here}} (a bit lik Template:aboot), whaur free text gies room for nuance. soothrhins (tauk) 22:39, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

If Wikipedia is supposed to be an online encyclopedia that anybody can edit is it then expected that edits to a page with a "which variant/dialect it is written" label are done in the labelled variant/dialect? The edits might be being made by somebody unfamiliar with the labelled variant/dialect or who chooses to spell it differently than has already been done. A veritable can of worms attempting a project typical of an Ausbau language with language varieties that effectively function as local varieties of colloquial English spoken in Scotland that are ultimately heteronomous with respect to Standard English. Nevertheless, it seems that when this Wiki was started attemps were made to address that issue. Nogger (tauk)

(Looks like @Nogger: added their answer to #1 after I already replied to their answer ad #2, so I'll reply to this one separately.)
Like I said in my reply to yours below, I know where you're coming from since I contributed to the Bavarian Wikipedia in the past. The situation of Bavarian is virtually the same as that of Scots in that is not standardised, not taught in schools etc. (It's not even recognised as a regional language by Bavaria or Austria, so congrats on that part, I guess). I'm merely sharing experiences made in other similar projects. With that out of the way, I could certainly give you the details of the language policy over there, but I think every community should figure out its own way to handle language use. If you want the details anyway, just let me know. On a separate note, I would love to know what makes Scots an ausbau language rather than an abstand one. If you find the time, please leave me a note on my collogue page. Thanks! --Andreas (tauk) 00:50, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

It would certainly be a challenge to Mark the "quality" of the Scots used in an article where, according to experts in the field such as those who created the The OU Scots Language and Culture course [14], Scots is a non-standard language.[15] That would indicate that any spelling or turn of phrase that can be understood by a Scots-speaker literate in English is as good as any other. Consequently resources for schools inform that "you can spell Scots any way you want" (within reason of course). [16] I suspect that it was assumed that transactional or discursive writing for an encyclopedia is something that Scots would never be used for. On the other hand, the Wikipedia article Modern Scots mentions "spellings ... based on ... prestigious literary conventions". Nogger (tauk) 22:23, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

While I like the idea of spellings ... based on ... prestigious literary conventions, I totally understand where you're coming from. I used to write for the Bavarian (my mouther tongue) and Neapolitan (my then SO's mother tongue) Wikipedias. I know that regional languages like these and Scots--which are close to their region's "prestige variety" and often considered dialects thereof--are not standardised nor taught in schools. I know that your head easily switches to the "prestige variety" as soon as you pick up a pen or put your hands down on a keyboard. That's what the "quality check" should focus on: how English is the Scots on a page--especially grammar-wise? This reminds me of another method we use on the Bavarian and Alemannic Wikipedias: a Help: page (entitled How to write good Bavarian/Alemannic) which explains the major grammatical differences between these varieties and Standard German, simple things you might get wrong when you aren't used to wrting them. Such a page could also be linked to in the welcome wagon/messages.
I don't know, just trying to help. Let me know what you think. --Andreas (tauk) 23:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

There's 50,000 pages, and not enough native mother-tongue contemporary Scots speaking editors on wikipedia. If there was a large pool of enthusiastic domestic native speakers involved then this wouldn't be a problem, but as it is the non-natives who rarely hear spoken Scots vastly outnumber them. I'm not a native speaker myself, but I'm sceptical of the merits of using 18t Century sources, the Online Scots Dictionary and even the Scots Spelling Committee, because a modern contemporary Scots speaker, Jimmy on the Clackmannan omnibus, can turn round and say that it looks like nonsense, nae one talks like that.
As a counterpoint, professional Scots authors and book publishers are staking their likelihoods and careers on getting spellings and grammar right, and not spouting nonsense. There's only a couple them, and only two or three Scots leid books published a year. --Illandancient (tauk) 08:25, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

It is certainly likely that Jimmy on the Clackmannan omnibus won't be speaking the Broad Scots that Survived into the middle of the 20th century or be familiar with the vibrant literary tradition that accompanied it before rapid dialect levelling occured. It was that Broad Scots which is described in the introduction to the 1985 Concise Scots Dictionary as having "linguistic distinctiveness" and a "remarkable literature" among other features which are "attributes of a language rather than a dialect." Since the onset of widespread dialect levelling after WWII most folk speak various intermediate mixtures of residual Broad Scots and Standard English/colloquial influences from throughout the English speaking world which is described as "the country's everyday vernacular, but now no more than that" in the introduction to the Concise Scots Dictionary mentioned above. That intermediate mixture was perhaps not regarded as Scots at all when C. Macafee concluded in the 'Edinburgh Companion to Scots' (p.51) that by the end of the twentieth century Scots was at an advanced stage of language death over much of Lowland Scotland.
The same "nae one talks like that" perhaps also applies in the world inhabited by John on the Millwall omnibus. When perusing the English Wikipedia John sees English written in high register aureate transactional prose rather than a representation of his habitual colloquial English. Years of schooling in Standard English transactional writing make John on the Millwall omnibus aware of that and enables others to produce it. Should the Scots Wikipedia be drawing on the Broad Scots literary tradition in order to educate Jimmy on the Clackmannan omnibus and help him reclaim his linguistic heritage or should the Scots Wikipedia be written in a colloquial first-person narrative drawing on that vernacular mix of residual Broad Scots and Standard and Non-standard English along with other colloquial influences from throughout the English speaking world?
The fact that most books currently published in Scots (rather than having Scots in dialogue and the narrative in English) are creative writing for children would indicate that many view Scots (of any kind) as an unsuitable medium for non-fiction transactional prose. Which is probably why Jimmy on the Clackmannan omnibus, and many like him, consult the English Wikipedia rather than the Scots one. Nogger (tauk) 20:53, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Server time is off by an hour?[eedit soorce]

The times logged when making changes seem to be an hour behind. It's 2:18 BST as of saving this. --Andreas (tauk) 01:19, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Prolly loggin in GMT, that Scotland uises hauf the year. Nae shuir if it's possible tae change this CiphriusKane (tauk) 01:21, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
The server time is UTC+0000, but you can change your time zone in your settings. Bear in mind this will only change the time displayed to you, it will not affect where the time is displayed as part of the page contents. If you see a time stamp in someone's signature on a talk page, for example, you'll still have to account for the difference yourself. Signatures will usually be tagged "UTC" so you know you might need to account for differences, like so: my_hat_stinks (tauk) 14:24, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

RfC on date airticles[eedit soorce]

A hae foond twa muckle problems wi the date airticles, e.g. 1 Januar:

  1. fair feck o Scotched English
  2. no or bare referencin on leets (wi a tot o thoosands o events/births/daiths)

If it wis jist 1, that wid be no different tae {{fixscots}}. But ti ma pense, baith maks a kittle (see 5).

A propone ettlin throu ilka date airticle an:

  • rid ony events/births/daiths wi no reference
  • apairt fae ony that airt tae the date, e.g. the non date relatit pages
  • pit thon remainin ower intae Scots
  • eikin references
  • fendin the airticle, so anely autoconfirmed users can edit (mony Scotched/no reference contribs ar fae IP editors the nou)

Thochts? soothrhins (tauk) 21:22, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Aye, A'm happy wi aw this. Better aan jest leavin em open fur edit fermin CiphriusKane (tauk) 05:56, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Growth team experiments on your wiki?[eedit soorce]

Hello!

I'm Trizek (WMF). I work as a community relations specialist for the Wikimedia Foundation, and in particular with the Growth team.

I'm contacting you after the recent revelations about your wiki. My goal is to offer some help.

The Growth team's goal is to create tools that would help newcomers, and you apparently have more newcomers these days. The objective is to increase the retention of new editors.

This is the newcomer homepage (displayed using Czech language)

We have created several tools to help them, and also to help community members who help them:

  • Newcomer tasks: a feed of task suggestions that help newcomers learn to edit. Newcomers make productive edits through this feed. Also, they are more likely to stay on Wikipedia after making edits using this feature!
  • Newcomer homepage: a special page that hosts the "newcomer tasks" and is a good place for a newcomer to get started. They get the contact with an experienced mentor who can help them.
  • Help panel: a platform to provide resources to newcomers while they are editing. If they do suggested tasks, they are step-by-step guided.

These tools are already available on some wikis, you can also try them on https://test.wikipedia.org.

We can deploy these tools on Scots Wikipedia. What do you think? I'm looking for people who could help working on translations and also to check on the configuration. What you have to do is explained on this page. It is mostly about translations, identifying useful templates and have a list of mentors ready to help. I can also assist you anytime with it.

I'm looking forward your reply, hoping for a great collaboration. Let me know if you have any question about this project! Of course, please move or share this message if needed.

Thank you, Trizek (WMF) (tauk) 13:06, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

@Trizek (WMF): if you had to choose between two new non-content namespaces, "Scroll:" and "Jottin:" as opposed to both or none, which do you think would be the most useful for increasing the proportion of Scots in the Scots Wikipedia? James Salsman (tauk) 00:28, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
(in Inglis) @Trizek (WMF): I've been interested in this since you posted it, and have mentioned it here and there on and off wiki. I think generally there is interest in some of what the Growth team has to offer, if the comments on our current RfC about whether to disallow IP editors from creating articles. I'm not at all qualified to be speaking on behalf of the community, and can't offer to translate, but wanted to bring this up so some more people had a look at it. James Hyett (tauk) 20:53, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
[en] Thank you for the highlight @James Hyett. Growth team tools may be a really good opportunity to help new users to make their first steps and stay on Scots Wikipedia. Let me know if the community wishes to adopt them. Maybe an RfC would help? Trizek (WMF) (tauk) 12:40, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

The message at the tap o the page[eedit soorce]

The message at the tap o the page says:

"(in Scots) Followin recent revelations, Scots Wikipedia is presently reviewin its airticles for muckle leid inaccuracies. (FAQ)"
Wad it no be mair Scots tae say:
"(in Scots) Follaein racent clearances, the Scots Wikipedia is praisently reviewin its airticles for muckle leid inaccuracies. (FAQ)"
?

Munci (tauk) 16:02, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Wiki of functions naming contest[eedit soorce]

21:22, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

RfC on delisting guid/featurt airticles[eedit soorce]

At the current time, there's a couple of standards for quality on the wiki, primarily guid articles and featurt airticles. Given Leidgate and the abysmal quality of some of these articles (see Betula pubescens, which was a "guid airticle" until recently), I'm proposing all featurt airticles prior to October 2020 (i.e. all bar Findhorn) and all guid airticles be delisted and that we set up some process for assigning these tags. As an additional note, some articles listed as "guid airticles" had the tags added by the article creators due to the English wiki having that status (see: Timbaland) CiphriusKane (tauk) 10:09, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Seems lik the richt thing tae dae, mibbie we should delete Template:Good article an aw, an anely use Template:Guid airticle tae discourage it's use whan lifit ower as pairt o en-wiki owersettins. Monospaced (tauk) 15:41, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

(in Inglis) Moving pages (can't do it myself)[eedit soorce]

(in Inglis) Erse Republican Airmy -> Irish Republican Army. Definitely a neologism coined on this wiki which can't be found in any Scots or Ulster Scots sources. Probably best to stick with the English as the official title of the page with Erse Republican Airmy in brackets. (n.b. this doesn't refer to the PIRA, which I previously moved to PIRA (Provos); if folk want to move this page then I understand).

Laird's Prayer -> Lord's Prayer. While "Laird" has been used in some older Scots translates (e.g. William Laughton Lorimer), "Lord" is the term used by the Kirk in their Prayer in Scots section. This was actually mentioned in the Leidgate discussion on Wikimedia. --Bangalamania (tauk) 20:56, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

@Bangalamania: on it. soothrhins (tauk) 21:36, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Call for feedback about Wikimedia Foundation Bylaws changes and Board candidate rubric[eedit soorce]

Hello. Apologies if you are not reading this message in your native language. Please help translate to your language.

Today the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees starts two calls for feedback. One is about changes to the Bylaws mainly to increase the Board size from 10 to 16 members. The other one is about a trustee candidate rubric to introduce new, more effective ways to evaluate new Board candidates. The Board welcomes your comments through 26 October. For more details, check the full announcement.

Thank ye! Qgil-WMF (talk) 17:17, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Scots & Wikisource[eedit soorce]

(in Inglis) Bit o chat over on the Facebook group about Scots language texts on Wikisource; there's a Texts in Scots category, and a Scots Portal as a starting point. Thought folks here might be interested. Transcription is a relatively easy entry point into editing on wikki, and doesn't require a high level of Scots language proficiency, so perhaps a good entry/learning point for folks with a lower Scots proficiency / who want to learn more. Happy to point folks in the direction of training materials / answer questions if I can. Scotland's had a good showing on Wikisource recently, what with the National Library of Scotland's lockdown project on the Scottish Chapbook collection. Relevant articles on sco.wiki can be enriched with links to source texts on wikisource, too... Sara Thomas (WMUK) (tauk) 12:04, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Politics news on 'e Newsins?[eedit soorce]

A'm wunnerin gin news tae dae wi politics wad be alloud on the Newsins bit? A wis hinkin thit the Welsh border closin wad be newswirthy here, bit wisna shuir anent the policy on politics news an wis telt tae come here an ask yese?

(in Inglis) So I'm wondering if news relating to politics would be allowed on the Newsins? I figured that maybe the Welsh border closing would be newsworthy here, and I was told to come here to ask what the policy/stance is on political news? -Cobra! (tauk) 23:00, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Uiser:Cobra 3000, as I see nobody answered you (yet), I think you can go ahead and report on any political news you think might be relevant. I don't see why not. And if anyone objects, then they will hopefully let us know. But in the meantime, I think you can go ahead. Thanks for your hard work, Sije (tauk) 18:59, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
(in Inglis) Alrighty then! -Cobra! (tauk) 19:36, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Important: maintenance operation on October 27[eedit soorce]

-- Trizek (WMF) (talk) 17:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

RfC on "guid airticle" usage[eedit soorce]

Point 1: Given the lack of decent articles on the wiki, I'd like to propose that we assign "guid airticle" status to potential featured articles. When we reach a point where we've got enough good articles to be a bit more picky, we can have a discussion about redefining "guid airticles".
Point 2: I'm proposing we award "guid airticle" status to The GFT, The Reid Road and George Square. These three should hopefully tide us over until we get some more quality articles CiphriusKane (tauk) 10:46, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

ad Point 1: +1. And I'd suggest to use one-tier system, at least until that redifining you propose happens. Maybe give a more Scots name (Braw airticles)? --Andreas (tauk) 15:56, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
ad Point 2: I nominate River Dee, Aiberdeenshire, Findhorn and Ben Lomond. --Andreas (tauk) 16:49, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
RE Point 1: Clarified in the Discord server, repeating here. The proposal is we assign "guid airticle" status to articles which can be featurt airticles and allowing admins to pick the next featurt airticle from the guid airticle pool. This would mean that GAs are our best and FAs are GA articles we've promoted (as opposed to the enwiki system where GAs are decent articles and FAs are the best), so the proposed "one-tier system" would be counterintuitive
RE Point 2: I'll clarify in the other RfC that Findhorn will be exempt from the FA cleansing and should automatically be awarded GA status as per Point 1. I'm happy with Ben Lomond but will refrain from commenting on River Dee, Aiberdeenshire given I wrote most of it CiphriusKane (tauk) 02:42, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
Actually, I'm opposing River Dee, Aiberdeenshire, cause I ken the language can be improved (ideally in Doric) and should be CiphriusKane (tauk) 22:29, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

AbuseFilter notice: rmspecials() will no longer remove whitespace when used in filters[eedit soorce]

Hello,

Apologies if you are not reading this message in your native language. Please help translate to your language.

We are making a change to the AbuseFilter extension, which may impact the behavior of some existing filters. The rmspecials() function currently removes spaces in addition to special characters. We will change it such that it will only remove special characters. The existing rmwhitespace() can be used to remove spaces whenever applicable.

As reported on https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/P12854 we believe at least one filter on your wiki has been identified to use the rmspecials() function. Please consider updating these filters by wrapping rmspecials() inside rmwhitespace() like this: rmwhitespace(rmspecials(....))

We need you to update the relevant filters within 2 weeks of this notice. If one of the community members with proper access is volunteering to take this on, we ask them to please respond below and notify User:Huji in their response or in the edit summary. If we don't hear back from you within 2 weeks, Huji will edit the relevant filters on your wiki per the global abuse filter maintainer policy, to ensure the filters won't break once the change is implemented. Thank you for your consideration!

Best regards,

--User:Huji (Collogue) 23:48, 26 October 2020 (UTC), sent via MediaWiki message delivery