Uiser collogue:Mutt Lunker
Athin, 'ithin "from within, by slurring of the unstressed first syllable." That wad seem tae pynt tae "ithin" bein within wi a letter missin. Is apostrophes no uised for tae shaw missin letters? The oreeginal chyce wis 'ithin whitwey for chynge it?
- Hello freen but afore ah reply, there's a wheen ae IP adresses (maist single-edit) that's edited above an at Kineuchar and maist like twa different fowk, but mibbes ae or five. Are ye ane o them, an which?
- Interestin the DSL haes an apostrophe i the entry's title, though ah amnae surpreesed tae see the quotit exaimple is mair nor a hauf century an less nor 400 years auld. Slurred it micht be but it's still guid Scots ah'd say, an ah'd see the apostrophe as apologetic (likesay ) an superfluous - but it's scrievit thaur. Houanever the Concise Scots Dictionar scrieves it wi nae apostrophe. Mibbes in this exaimple (fer aince) ye cuid cry them baith richt, though ma instinct's tae grue at the apologetic apostrophe.
- If ye're gonnae bide here, ah'd upsteer ye tae get a uiser name so's we ken wha ye are when ye're aboot the place. Aye, Mutt Lunker 18:48, 11 Dizember 2010 (UTC)
- Scots Dictionars is for ordinar juist a hatter o heterogeneous spellins waled 'ithoot rhyme nor raison. Aiblins elidit wad be a less depreciatin term nor slurred. If ye howk eneuch ye'll can find maist ony spellin ye like. Whit spellin tae uise? The maist common ane for ilka wird? Frae whit corpus? At the hinder end walin the maist common anes wad juist produce anither hatter o heterogeneous spellins an aw. The apologetic apostrophe is a recent concept. Are we juist tae evyte it whaur it shaws "where a consonant exists in the Standard English cognate" and in "contracted forms" maugre the "elided graphemes", or shoud elidit Scots forms be shawn wi an apostrophe? At lang an lenth it disna maiter, Scots is juist dialect writin. An pairt o the fun is bein aither phonetically creative or cleckin yer ain rules. An sae suin as a body's cleckit a rule thay'll find thairsels conterdictin it. 220.127.116.11 22:24, 11 Dizember 2010 (UTC)
Aw jings, ither spang new IP, wha are ye noo? It's nae problem but are ye new tae this bit gab or hae ye contreebuted tae it afore? Hou mony fowk am a bletherin wi here an at Kineuchar? Ah'd juist like tae ken if ye're aw the same gadgie or if there's hunners ae yis.
Creativity and claikin yer ain rules is braw ither wheres but at the wiki we maun tak tent it's no oreeginal research (sorrie, can fin the policy in Inglis but no in Scots).
Apostrophes is necessar for elidit Scots but (accordin tae CSD an, noo ah've keekit, the Concise English-Scots Dictionar (SNDA) forbye) ithin wi nae apostrophe is valid (an wi it isnae listit there). Mony wirds hes a wheen ae spellins but ah'd hud that we shuid jouk wide o "correckin" fae wan form that's areddies correck tae anither that's nae mair sae. Sae, if ye're the uiser that scrievit the oreeginal text o the airticle, ah'd be cantie eneuch if ye're huddin tae the apostrophe that's supportit bi DSL, e'en though it's braw athoot it. Bit if ye're the uiser that pit it or the w- back in acause it's "missin", ah'm thrawn eneuch tae hud tae ma edit! Mutt Lunker 01:05, 12 Dizember 2010 (UTC)
- Thare's hunders o us! IPs is like Scots spellins, whiles this ane whiles that yin. Yer screed abuin is juist an example o the wey Scots Dictionars is for ordinar juist a hatter o heterogeneous spellins waled 'ithoot rhyme nor raison. Hou's a body tae ken whit spellins is correct an whit anes is nae mair sae? Gin ony spellin in ony dictionar is valid thay can be mixtur-maxturt ony whit wey wi'oot rhyme nor raison. Gin a body wis tae applee some kin o rules as tae whit spellin conventions thay wale wad that be oreeginal resairch? Ony wey, here's anither dictionar tae raivel things a bittie mair. 18.104.22.168 01:56, 12 Dizember 2010 (UTC)
Aw min - are ye new noo or no? Can yis please let me ken. It's like tryin tae hud a confabble wi a series a fowk an ilka time ye dinnae ken if it's a new neb or juist a new bunnet!
The recommendation is that "fowk that kens better disna uise the apologetic apostrophe" - ma reason for takin it oot o 'ithin as scrievit. But DSL sais it comes fae "within"; thon's an expleecit rhyme/reason, they're no juist makin it up an ah'm no gonnae say they're wrang. An that maks a case for the apostrophe no bein apologetic in this exaimple an aiblins ma takin it oot wes unkennin.
Ma main pint is no sae much aboot whit's correck or no fer this wan wurd but that fowk should hud wide o chyngin text gin it's awreddies correck - includin masel per abuin. Ither roads we'd tak aw wir time chyngin wan guid spellin fer anither insteid o eikin ocht.
Tae follae on fae 22.214.171.124 (an ah'm no richt shair if we're greein or no on thir pint), gin it's in a dictionar, that's ane wey tae shaw it's verifeeable, the "threshold for inclusion" in wiki tairms, but no "richt" or "wrang" per se. Sae mixter-maxter awa. Mutt Lunker 02:56, 12 Dizember 2010 (UTC)
- IPs is lik bunnets, ye can pit a new ane on ilka time ye tak the gate. The DLS or CSD etc. micht weel appear tae hae an expleecit rhyme/reason whan it comes tae the spellin o ae wird, but the same expleecit rhyme/reason is syne ignored whan it comes tae anither analogous seetiation. Sae as a hale, Scots Dictionars is for ordinar juist a hatter o heterogeneous spellins wale't athoot rhyme nor raison. Gin bein in a dictionar is ae wey tae shaw a spellin is verifeeable, whit aboot spellings taen frae beuks or jurnals, or e'en online screeds an scrievins. Daes siclike shaw a spellin is verifeeable? That shoud cuir aboot maist ilka spellin a body could think on. That daesna soond lik an awfu mensefu wey tae write a language (weel we ken it isna a real language but we'll lat that flee stick tae the waw) lat alane an encyclopedie, tho schuil bairns an lefty teachers wad like that acause naebody wad iver be gien grief for bad spellin, maugre the fact that ae body coudna richt read whit anither body haed written. A dout that maist ilka spellin a body coud cleck haes been pitten tae prent or kythed on the wab some gates, sae nae maiter hou a body writes, it's aye correct? By the by thare's an interestin screed anent "normative orthography" here. 126.96.36.199 12:24, 12 Dizember 2010 (UTC)
Is there onything relatit tae the facks or scrievin on Kineuchar or any ither airticle that's in contention yet or are we juist haein a bit crack/haver noo? It's richt pawkie ah'm shair tae pit oan a new bunnet ilka time ye/s tirl ma risp but disnae help me follae the threid/s, if there is ony. Mutt Lunker 15:20, 12 Dizember 2010 (UTC)
- Seein that Kineuchar is verifeeable, baith Kineuchar an Kinneuchar is richt. We shoud jouk wide o "correctin" fae ae form that's awredies correct tae anither that's nae mair sae. Ither roads we'd tak aw wir time chyngin ae guid spellin for anither insteid o eikin ocht. 188.8.131.52 18:07, 12 Dizember 2010 (UTC)
Ettlin tae score chape an ill-mainnert pints wad seem to be yer mint mair nor bein constructive aboot this project. Mutt Lunker 18:52, 12 Dizember 2010 (UTC)
A real Scot an a traveller an aw[eedit soorce]
Hi, I am hoping that you might have a little time to look at the fixscots (and noscots) lists.
The only two people writing articles these days are North Americans without Scots ancestry.
Guilty as charged, Varlaam (talk) 19:32, 29 September 2012 (UTC) (in Toronto)