Talk:Scots leid

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Table o contents 1 Sindry comments 1.1 A' Bheurla Ghallda? 1.2 Vouel lenth phonemic? 1.3 Scots Leid Associe 1.4 Just Love Scots 2 Fend?

[edit] Sindry comments

[edit] A' Bheurla Ghallda?

The airtin tae gd: airts til gd:A' Bheurla Ghallda, or "Unco English"! Ciamar a chanas mi Scots anns a' Ghàidhlig? Bha mi a' tuigsinn gu bheil e Albannais neo Albais, agus chan eil A' Bheurla Ghallda. ("Hou dae A say Scots in Gaelic? A thocht it wis Albannais or Albais, no A' Bheurla Ghallda." Sairy for ma scunnersome Gaelic, an A ken this is probably something for gd: tae discuss.) Mendor 18:03, 11 Augist 2005 (UTC)

"A' Bheurla Ghallda" is richt eneuch. "Beurla" means "Babble" an "Gallda" means "fremmit" maistlins but "Lowland" in this contex. Pit the phrase inti Google an tak a look at the results. Crying it Albais wad be like cryin "A' Bheurla", Sassunais. Logical but nae richt (or nae insultin eneuch oniewey). -- 204.209.24.2 18:38, 11 Augist 2005 (UTC)

Ahh. "Lowland babble" as agin juist "babble" — fair eneuch ;-) (Mynd you A am shuir that in ma Gaelic textbeuk Speaking Our Language it wis cryed Albais, but frae googlin the twa terms A jalouse that Albais micht be a bit o a "poleitically correct" version o A' Bheurla Ghallda? Mendor 18:55, 11 Augist 2005 (UTC)

That's aboot the size o it. -- 204.209.24.2 20:05, 11 Augist 2005 (UTC)

To clarify (and im sorry i cant do so in Scots!) a'Bheurla Ghallda is the traditional nomenclature for lowland Scots. Albais is a recent neologism. Theres a similiar situation in Irish where Scots was traditionally referred to as 'Bèarla na hAlban' but they too have introduced a neologism - 'Albanais' - although im not sure how popularly used this latter word is.

User:An Siarach

[edit] Vouel lenth phonemic?

For clever chiels at kens anent this kin o thing. Is vouel lenth conseidert phonemic in Scots? The exemplar that got me tae thinkin anent this wis the differ atween deid — A say [did] — an dee'd — A say [di:d]. Mendor 18:03, 11 Augist 2005 (UTC)

The airticle Scots vouel lenth rule expoonds hou vouel lenth isna for ordinar phonemic but condeetiont bi the environ that a vouel finds itsel in.

The /i/ in dee'd is lang acause it kythes afore a morpheme boond.

Jimmy 10:33, 12 Augist 2005 (UTC)

Aye, A'd seen that, but shuirly that still means it's phonemic but? The'r a meinimal pair in deid an dee'd, is the no?

Whan ye say "vouel lenth isna for ordinar phonemic" dis that mean the'r exceptions? A juist ask acause A think it wad gie an interestin comeback tae fowk that says that Scots isna a separate leid frae the English. English disna disteinguish atween vouel lenths as faur's A ken -- dis it? Mendor 16:25, 12 Augist 2005 (UTC)

Nae, it dis - "bit" /bit/ "beat" /bi:t/, "am" /am/ "arm" /a:m/ an sic 62.156.255.22 14:46, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Scots Leid Associe

This is whit thay cry thairsels in Scots (see for examplar [1]), sae A think it wad be safe eneuch tae hae that in the airtin, wad it no? Mendor 18:03, 11 Augist 2005 (UTC)

It's a teuch ane. Whan spikkin about them in Scots or screivin informally I'd cry them "Scots Leid Associe" but whan screivin aboot them here as a topic I think we shoud uise their legal name athoot owersettin, in the same wey that we dinna owerset the names o beuks an sae furth whan we screive aboot them. That's the wey I chynged the airtin back. Houaniver I'm nae gaun ti fash masel ower it. -- Derek Ross 18:48, 11 Augist 2005 (UTC)

Hmm. A wis thinkin anent this an aa. We aareadies hiv Scots Pairlament, Scots Socialist Pairty, Preses o the Scots Pairlament an a puckle ither airticles that isna uisin "legal" names but oor ain "unoffeicial" Scots owersettins. A wis gaunae pit up an airticle anent the Naitional Heal (Halth?) Service an aa, but that isna an "offeicial" name, an A wis wunnerin if it wad be better unner its "offeicial" teitle "National Health Service"... we'r gaunae hae tae thrash oot a policy on this A think — Mendor 20:59, 11 Augist 2005 (UTC)

It's a rael thorny issue. I'm nae shuir o the best wey to gang masel. Mair input frae ithers wad be guid. -- Derek Ross 21:10, 11 Augist 2005 (UTC)

A dinna see ocht wrang wi Scots versions that uises obvious Scots cognates o the English wirds. A problem wad be makkin up wirds, cleckin neologisms or uisin ither wirds in contexts whaur thay're no for ordinar uised.

Jimmy 22:25, 12 Augist 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Just Love Scots

Hello, sorry about the English, I'm not Scottish, but I love the sound of Scots Leid reading it, and learning the unique consenant sounds. But I was wondering since you mostly seem to be in Scots communities how large they are and what type of speaking base you have. As I have had a hard time getting the jist of the article I just tried to read.

Hopping to be a Scots speaker eventually, Robert Privyet'bonnuit 19:13, 12 Julie 2007 (UTC)

It's a tricky question to answer. Scots is very similar to English, and everyone in Scotland (outside of the Gaelic-speaking areas) is taught English at school, and not Scots. So most Scots-speakers tend to speak a mixture of Scots and English, switching smoothly from one to the other with no divide between the two. Add to that the fact that in a lot of Scotland, Scots is spoken mostly by working-class communities, and you get a language that is barely recognised by most people, even those that speak it. A lot of Scots-speakers think of themselves as English speakers, with maybe a bit of "local slang" thrown in, and are genuinely shocked (and often offended) to find that other English-speakers (such as the English) can't understand them. After all, they can understand the English fine (because they've been taught English at school, and heard it on the telly, etc).

So, it's an odd situation. There are exceptions - the North East has a very strong awareness of it's Doric heritage, although even then, you'll find that this is sometimes not recognised as being part of the heritage of Scotland as a whole.

So, part of the reason for this wikipedia is to give a space for Scots-speakers to express themselves without needing to resort to English, or even to "water down" their Scots. And if we can boost the profile of the language (or dialect or whatever you want to call it. I get really bored of those arguments) in the process, then great! Bazza 08:31, 13 Julie 2007 (UTC)

Hurrah for Scots Wikipedia, keep up the good work. The historical and political background for the English and Scots languages seems to be analogous to that of the two Norwegian languages: Bokmål and Nynorsk. The exception is that Nynorsk was by law adopted as a written language in 1885, theoretically of equal status, though it is still discriminated against. Historically, the written Norwegian language effectively disappeared when the country was taken over by the Danes (1536). In the countryside people kept their dialects but were eventually required to learn to read and write Danish. All higher education was in Copenhagen. "Higher class" city people came to speak written Danish with a Norwegian pronunciation. (No one but a Dane can pronounce Danish!) The Norwegian Constitution was written (in Danish, of course) and adopted in 1814. Romantic nationalism throughout the 1800s succeeded in creating a truly Norwegian written language, but today it is written by fewer than 20% of the people, though many more than that still speak the dialects on which Nynorsk is based. (The official statistics are affected by the above mentioned discrimination. When I have to fill out a form for a public agency, I always ask for it in Nynorsk. More often than not, they just happen to be "temporarily" out of the Nynorsk version.)

Nynorsk Wikipedia just attained its 34000th article!

Comparing the language situations in Scotland and Norway, one could go even further and mention the minorities which use non-Germanic languages: Gaelic in Scotland and Sami (Lapplander) in Norway.

Best wishes from Norway, where I sign myself as Hordaland.

Privyet'bonnuit, you took the words out of my mouth. 72.75.39.215 21:24, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fend?

Will Ah fend this airticle? It's aye being vandalised... Bazza 06:38, 3 Julie 2009 (UTC)